We Competed at the Astana Epee World Cup — Here's How it Went | Strategy, Upsets & Team USA Epee Rising

We competed at the Astana Epee World Cup in Kazakhstan — and Team USA beat Olympic champion Hungary. Full recap inside.

The Fencing Podcast of All Fencing Podcasts.

In this episode, you'll discover:
• What it's actually like to compete at an international epee World Cup in Kazakhstan — the culture, the food, and the competition floor
• How Team USA Men's Epee finished sixth and pulled off a landmark overtime win over Olympic champion Hungary, signaling real program growth on the world stage
• A deep tactical breakdown of ego vs. simplicity in fencing strategy — and why sticking to the simplest path to victory is harder than it sounds
• How epee is evolving globally, becoming faster and more physical, and what that means for competitors trying to keep up

Ari and Stephen are active competitors on the international fencing circuit who combine firsthand competitive experience with honest, unfiltered analysis — the kind of breakdown you won't find anywhere else in the fencing content space.

Did you think Team USA had a legitimate shot at beating Hungary going into that match — or does a win like that still surprise you?

⏱️ CHAPTERS
00:00:00 Intro: Back From Kazakhstan & Why We Missed Last Episode
00:03:51 Vlogging the World Cup
00:07:02 Pool Round Breakdown
00:19:31 Between Rounds: Kazakhstan Venue, Energy, and Team USA Vibe
00:26:49 Fencing Strategy Deep Dive: Defensive Play, Ego, and Winning Formulas
00:41:47 Kazakh Food, Horse Meat, and Smuggling Salami Home
00:45:03 Individual Event Shoutouts
00:49:25 Team Event Recap: USA Beats Olympic Champions Hungary in Overtime
00:53:29 USA Women's Epee Team Dominance
00:59:22 Fencing Content and Upcoming Episodes

💬 BEST QUOTES
"I hadn't felt this type of happiness to compete in such a long time."
"At the competitions, you have to be the Rubik's Cube, and you also have to be the impenetrable wall. You have to be all these things."
"This was the first time that I think the teams around the world looked at us and saw that we might be improving, and it was really, really awesome to see as an athlete, as a teammate and as someone who's, you know, really supporting this program in our in our growing stages."

Theme song written and performed by Colin Campbell

🔗 Connect with Colin

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/campbelltunes/?hl=en

Thank you for listening!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Oh yeah yeah it's direct elimination back in the states back in the states sorry to all of the listeners we know that there was supposed to be an episode last Friday and we didn't deliver. Um yeah we were in Astana, Kazakhstan, Astana, Kazakhstan, and you know we're not perfect. So we really messed up the logistics there, and my editing capabilities were not what I thought they were on the move. Probably need a new laptop. Hashtag Apple sponsor us. Uh and anyways, here we are for the makeup episode, and we have quite a bit of cool stuff coming for you guys. But before, we're here to talk about our frigging week across the world.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Yeah. Well, first of all, guys, I gotta give a shout out to Ari. He thanklessly edits these full-length episodes, um, and he does a great job with them. So, and that is a burden that falls on his shoulders in addition to his regular life. So, what we are looking to alleviate that, um, they huge thank you to Ari for editing. And you know what? Sometimes life life gets in the way, and Kazakhstan was was too awesome to waste time editing. Um, and I guess there were technical issues too.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Yeah. Um, and on that note, if you are a listener to this podcast and you think you're a good uh audio video editor, reach out to us, please. We're always looking to expand our uh our operations as a team.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

And you'd get you'd get full access to episodes, completely unedited, uh earlier than the general public, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah, you'd get to listen to this stuff pre-pre-release.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

You'd get to hear all the mean names that I call Ari in the midst of recording all these things.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd have to you'd have to be the one actually seeing what gets cut. That's a pretty scary, scary thing to think about. Actually, we're no longer recruiting for this position. It's been filled. Um, yeah, anyways, thanks for the shout-out, Steven. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Um but yeah, so as Ari as Ari was saying last week, we were in Astana, Kazakhstan, um, which was really the the coolest World Cup experience I think I've had in a while. Um I like just very unique. That's what people keep, you know, people ask, oh, how was it? What'd you think? I'm like, it was just a unique place. Um and I loved it. I really loved the country, the people were very nice, the food was incredible, uh, the experience top notch. And and this is the crazy part. I didn't even get to party. Like, usually, you know, you go to these World Cups, they're kind of like a mini vacation once your job is over, right? The the the PC or job that is competing and like trying to take fencing seriously. Um and I try to make the most of those opportunities and go and spend time with friends and engage in revelry. Um, this time didn't have any time to do that.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

And I feel like we also didn't really sightsee.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

No, but I still had an amazing time. I still loved it and like just good vibes, good vibes from a country, you know, good vibes from the country, the city, the food, and honestly, Team USA had pretty good vibes overall.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Absolutely. And you know, I think we all bought into the fact that we're going on a journey together across the world, and I think that that's not always picked up on by everyone. And I think for the most part, a lot of us were just happy to be there, and that was really fun to capture as a fencing enjoyer and and you know, enthusiast, but also as a vlogger, because one of the things that I think you and I had never really done before the last you know month and a half of our lives was vlogging, and we got to vlog a camp that we sorry, some practical. Yeah, we we got a vlog a clinic that you and I ran. Oh, oh yeah, yeah. The clinic, yeah. Yeah, we've we vlogged a clinic that you and I ran, and we haven't posted the full version yet, uh, TBD when that's gonna come out, but we did do the little teaser trailer, and that was really fun already. And that just started rolling the ball down the hill, and here we are with two and a half plus hours of vlog footage of our journey to Astana. So that'll be coming out for you guys at some point, just showing what Steven and I, or uh any average Joe who's traveling across the world to a fencing competition experiences. Granted, there are things we could have recorded a bit better. There are things that we definitely did nail pretty well. And what we really wanted to capture was just the journey over there, what's going through our heads before, during, and after competition, the relationships that we have with different people across the world. Not everyone was in on the vlog, not everyone wanted to be in it. Some people were in it, but didn't want to be in it. So I think people will warm up to it over time. But that was really fun. And more importantly, we are here to recap that tournament.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

And Ari and I seek to deliver that. That's why we would never ever try to sway you to buy certain equipment or or you know purchase things from a certain brand. Um that's just that's just not who we are. However, um, if you wanted, you can shop Prairie USA at any time. Link in our bio.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Steven. Steven, Steven, Steven. Steven. Steven, Steven, Steven. If you're using Edge Advanced Grip Spray or the Advanced Grip System when you fence, let me tell you, your shoes aren't slipping anywhere. Not one bit. Buy Edge. Use code all in A-L-L-I-N at checkout for a little discount.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

So yeah, that was my question to you is are we gonna, I mean, because the vlog is coming out, they're gonna see more or less everything that happened. Do we we want to vlog is not a podcast good stuff?

SPEAKER_01 6:49

All right, let's let's hit it. So we are we're podcasting now. I think the best way to start is to just sort of explain where we were mentally and how it went. So, results-wise, where'd you finish up? 60th, I think. I think you're in the 50s.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

59th? 59th.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

I'm pretty sure it was 60th, though. Well, I finished 74th, not too far behind, but an entire fencing match behind. And let's just talk about that and then we can go and talk about the overall results and how people did. Yeah. So you you go first. Well, I guess we were both in the morning section, right? Yeah. So pools were split up into two rooms. Yeah, two rooms and also two flights. So for those of you who haven't competed in a senior World Cup in fencing, essentially there are n number of strips available to fence on.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Well, they've been in their knacks to get flighted. Yeah, not everyone fighting of pools isn't a foreign concept to our listeners. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Sorry for uh But it is it is the World Cup standard. Yeah, it is the World Cup standard because they're all they're not gonna add in, you know, any strips, and we're not gonna split strips with other weapons. They're just let's say 18 or 20 strips available.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

And you're 300 people.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Exactly. Sometimes there are more strips, sometimes there are less strips. But that that's what we had. And you and I are both in the morning flight, which is your preferred or not preferred method.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Not preferred, dude. Because uh for two reasons. One, early wake up. I am now working at all of these. Um, so I'm definitely working before day one. That means minimum I'm going to bed at like 11 p.m. is my work is when my work day ends, not when I'm you know getting ready and going to bed. Um at this particular one it was 2 a.m., right? So that's just if the later I can push that pullback the better. Um and the other piece of it is because there's multiple flights, now you have to warm up before DE's, right? Um because there's that time in between, and sometimes there's three flights. So I definitely would prefer to be in the final flight of whatever the competition is, just so mentally you don't cool down, physically you don't cool down before DE's start, and you're just hot and ready to go. Um I'm a very little Caesars kind of guy.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

That's funny. Um I don't really care where I go. I don't have a preference. I used to prefer morning or the last one, but I'm a control freak, I think. And the more that I wanted one or the other, the more that I was having to fight off whether or not I was affected by the reality of where I was placed. So I just kind of convinced myself that it doesn't matter. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter and it shouldn't matter. But well, you mentioned control, it's just something you got to deal with. Exactly. So I I no longer have a preference, and especially for this competition because it was my first one back in so long. Uh I competed in the Monal in France in 2024, May 2024. It's now March. Well, now it's April, but this was end of March 2026. So that's almost two years. I was just so happy to be back on the circuit fencing with the top of the top and the best in the world. The that eagerness to show out and show up and compete was just more than any desire to be in the morning or afternoon. And I was happy I got to be in pool number one with the number one ranked person, not in the top 16, who at this tournament was Andrea Santorelli. And we're supposed to have a really fun pool with myself as one of the low seeds, the unranked guy. We had Andrea Santorelli, we had Ole Peterson, a young German guy. We had who else was in the pool? We had a young and strong Kazakh, uh Tinikov. We had a match with a I had a Switzerland fencer named Wicht. I hope I did not mispronounce that, but I just might have. I just might have. I had a my first Mongolian fencer that I fenced against a long time.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

That's a country I want to go visit. Yeah. That's number one on my want to go. People ask, or I'm Sean Strong asked me why the hell do you want to go visit Mongolia? And I was like, I couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

But the Windows XP backgrounds. Just want to go see Mongolia. Yeah, excuse me. It's like Kazakhstan, but more remote. Yeah. Um, and I'm blanking on who else I had. I had one other bout. So let's see. Santorelli, Wicked, Mongolia, Tininkov, um, and Peterson. No, that's five bouts. And I was supposed to have Gonell from Spain, but he was in O show, sadly. So we had a small pool. Darn. And it was uh not the hardest pool I've been in and not the easiest, somewhere middle of the pack. Had a lot of fun and was just so excited to be back on the circuit. Had one blowout win, two really close wins that were uh one touch matches, and a one-touch loss to Andrea Santarelli. And I was up 4-3 in that match. Maybe saw the finish line a little bit too early. Shoulders got tense, emotional exertion led to some physical exhaustion, and he drew me out really well for that fourth touch with a nice counterattack over the top. He's just such a such a great flicker, honestly, with very commanding yet minimalistic footwork. Uh, I've always admired his fencing and the highlight reel touches he puts on and would have loved to get that victory. But Santa, you got it this time. Um, and then I for the last touch, I made a decision. I chose to attack. I was a little too far, maybe didn't change tempo enough and just got that loss. But I was really happy because I was very present during the pool, a bit nervous, but in control and just happy to be out there fighting. I I hadn't felt this type of happiness to compete in such a long time. And you and I constantly talk about mindset, you know. I think I would have been happy with most outcomes with the mentality and effort that I was putting in on that day. And I just happened to go four and one, could have been one and four, could have been five and oh, would have been obviously happier with the outcome at five and oh, sadder with the outcome at one and four, well oh and five, but just happy to be fighting. How's your pool?

SPEAKER_03 13:31

I remember it was all right. Uh I went three and three. Not best pool performance, not the worst, but coming off of disappointing pool result in Heidenheim. Um I was just happy to make it out, man. Like I didn't really care how I did. Um, if you're not gonna go six and oh, then who cares? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Uh it which bout, which bout in the pool did you lose? Second one. You're so I've also lost my second one. So after that, you just have like a freedom that comes over you.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Yeah, well, it's yeah, it's just like, all right, well, shit. I can I, you know, you can either dwell on it and be like, well, no, now I'm Vencing D's. Uh, or you can like hold on to hope, like, oh, maybe this is one of the ones where if I go five and one plus 74, and like at the end of the day, just this is what I always tell people. Like, my dad used to say this to me when I was a kid. Um, just like just make it out of pools, right? The only thing that matters is making it out of pools. Once you win three bouts, who cares? Right? Obviously, you know, six and oh is good. You you five and one is good, you might get a buy, right? In depending on the competition, the competition size, and you know, all this stuff, but like just make it out of pools. Pools just mixes everything up. Five and one, six and oh don't even guarantee you a good path, right? Um, and sometimes a buy isn't even good for you, right? Because the other person's getting warmed up and you aren't. Um, so really like nobody should dwell on pool results once they've made it out of pools. That's my that's my uh soapbox for today. Like, pools don't matter at all. If you're if it's the World Cup six and oh, that matters, but if it's any other competition ever, pools don't matter at all as long as you're a World Cup and you're not going 6-0.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah, as soon as you don't go 6-0, just prepare for carnage.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

Yeah, it's it's a fight. Yeah, um, so yeah, my pool is okay. Um, I twisted my ankle in the warm-up.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

I was literally the strip right next to me, each of us warming up with our Canadian friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I love Team Canada, they're they're good guys, they're really good guys. I have some good friends on that team, and you know it's crazy. I'm pretty sure I saw Finn apologize to you, even though it was fully.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

No, yeah, it was just a it was just an accident.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Like, but he literally played no part in that, yeah. And I think he apologized too many ways, which Finn, you should take it back. I watched it happen, Steven's a fool.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Listen, um, I've always joked that I have ankles of steel because like I've rolled my ankles a ton of times and like stuff that like people get injured from, right? And I just sort of walk it off. But this one, I was like, oh, like that didn't feel good.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Yeah, you stop fencing. Yeah, I was worried you were gonna withdraw.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

No, no, no, never. I don't even know how bad it was. I would have limped it off. It could have broke, I would have limped it off. Um, but that was in it, that was just like an interesting mental exercise of like, all right, I don't know how bad this is gonna hurt in 20 minutes or in 10 minutes, right? Like they were getting ready to call people to the strips, and I was like, just get to the trainer, get it taped up, and then like go from there. Like, we're here, it doesn't matter, it could be broken, you gotta deal with it, right? Um, and like it hurt for sure, but the adrenaline helped. Um, they did a shout out to the trainers, um, Emily and Troy. They did an amazing job with that ankle tape.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Um, and they're just great all weekend. Yeah, it's such a grueling thing for the sports med staff to participate in. Like going to any fencing tournament and not fencing and just being present. It's a long day. It's it's long for us, it's even longer for someone who doesn't actually participate in the fencing. And you're just there. A lot of the sports med staff have a lot of waiting as a part of their job. And granted, it's a part of their job, but when they're in the states uh or wherever they're working primarily and not traveling, you're not waiting for that much of your day. You're seeing patients, you're cycling through them. There's a lot of hands-on activity, there's a lot of speaking. The sports med staff just did a lot of watching and they are troopers because they're ready at a moment's notice and they're taking care of a bunch of smelly, you know, grown athletes. And I I really always have a deep appreciation for the sports med staff, and most of the, you know, team USA group does. And, you know, this tournament I saw a lot of appreciation from our men's women's epic teams for the sports med staff. And they, I mean, these two folks slogged across the world to watch us battle it out in a tiny city, but not tiny.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

That was a pretty big city. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Million and a half people, tiny city. In some city in a country that most people have not heard of if they have not watched Borat. Uh, also, fun fact turns out Kazakhs don't love Borat.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Yeah, they do not. Yeah. Um, so I was doing a lot of Borat impression over there because I, you know, as a young teenager, I loved that movie. I still love the movie. Yeah, come on. I still love that movie. And the second movie. It is a great movie. It is a great series of movies. Sasha Berencohn is a comedic genius. He is. Um, just Yang Shamash. Yang Shamash. My wife, but uh, it's yeah, I I knew going into that, like, don't do this in public, and like you never know which older like Cosmic person is gonna actually be familiar with the movie. Um, also, just people from that side of the world don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

I think we were we could have been way more inappropriate than we were, not in a bad way. I'm saying that I think we were fairly respectful of all cultures while we were there.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Yeah, that's a fair assessment. Sorry, already had to do snacks in the studio. It's like a mini stroop waffle. Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

That's so good. It actually goes really well with a that's it fruit bar, and the combined calories is 95, which is nothing. You get a great snack. Um, but anyways, uh yeah, so pools finished. We had a long break until DE's. Well, because we were in the first flight. We were in the first flight, but that long break was fun. We gotta vlog. I'd never vlogged a fencing tournament before, and we got to talk about pools with each other to the camera. We gotta get some other people on there, and we gotta really hang out. I felt that this break was really enjoyed rather than a lot of people sitting around dreading what's happening next. And there was kind of a flow, even though there was a lot of waiting. Maybe this is just me speaking personally, but it felt that the overall energy of this competition was overwhelmingly positive.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

From a lot of the athletes as well. A lot of people were excited to be in a new city on the circuit and a new venue. It was run super well by the Cosmic Santa.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Well, I think I think the vibe that you're talking about was a direct result of they they killed it. Like they really killed it running this competition. There weren't a lot of issues that caused delays. Everything ran very smoothly. It was very professionally done. Spacing, right? A lot of times these World Cups just don't have the space, right? It's kind of crowded and uncomfortable to be in these rooms, even if you have a seat, even if you have a designated space for your bag, like it's it's uncomfortable. It's like a hostile uh architecture. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Like it's just in Heidenheim, it feels hostile, it feels cold, and not because of anybody in Heidenheim, but there's just no space, and it's so many elite athletes all trying to carve out their space in that room that they can dominate with their warm-up, their meditation, their focus. No, it's like your energy.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

But I'm saying forget the forget the actual act of like, yes, you're absolutely correct in that, but forget the the actual piece of doing the action that is fencing. I'm talking just sitting there.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

No, no, I know it's cramped.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

You feel cramped. But this one was this was incredible.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

And we had space to put our bags, but it probably played into it, and we had a US little zone, we had a little corner, like it was great, and it was it was maybe it being warm in a cold city also played into that. Anyways, it was just great. We hung out, we gotta watch some fencing, we gotta we gotta just chat, and then unbeknownst to me, DE started pretty quickly. I thought a bunch of us had buys, and it turns out that you and Sean and all these people had already fenced a match while I was just sitting there meditating.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

So, who was your first DE? Some uh Uzbek kid. Um, am I saying? He might have been 20, I don't know. Uh, but he looked kind of young.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Okay. Um was it Muminov? No, I don't think. Did he have glasses?

SPEAKER_03 22:07

No.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Was he short? Yes. Thick and strong? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

No. We could look it up. Um should we?

SPEAKER_01 22:16

For the lore? Do you guys care? Let us know. Anyways.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

You shouldn't care. Um but yeah, I fenced this. It was a bad kid. Um and he got the first three touches. I just wasn't quite in it yet. Um, but I quickly discovered he could do like two things pretty solidly, right? He could flick the hand and he could take eight. He was also lefty. Um, but then all of a sudden I just can do more than two things.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

And is it Uzbek or Kazak?

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Uzbek. Um Lefty. Uzbek. Anyways. He's he's a younger guy. Um match just kind of went on. It was over. Um great description. There wasn't, it wasn't really a super exciting bout. I just like did the work, outworked this kid, and he didn't have the the tools in the toolbox to deal with me.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

How soon into the bout did you know you were gonna win?

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Uh being down 3-0. Like, I at no point was I concerned that I was gonna lose this match. It was just a question of and but like he never rolled over, right? Like, I really just wanted like an easy mental victory, and he never gave it to me. He scored 10. Um, and I had to work through the entire match. So I I'm not saying that I like steamrolled this kid and he was like bad or anything.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Yeah, you were just confident in the fact that you were gonna win, but that's something that's super common at these tournaments that's not as common in the United States. People outside of this country, and maybe because they are the top fencers in their country, they are tough. Well, I think the stakes are higher for them. Well, not only the state, I mean the stakes are high for everyone. Like we fight hard when we're there too. But we aren't we aren't putting food on the table. No, no, I hear you, I hear you. The stakes are higher, but also they're just tougher. Like, like the the the international fencing scene, the fight is stronger across the board. And that even goes for people who are not putting food on the table with fencing. I just think that because the level of the tournament is high, in many cases the fencers rise or fall based on the pressure. But in many cases, regardless of whether or not they're falling from the pressure, the fight is always going up. People, even if they're tense, they're gonna fight really hard. Yeah. And I really enjoy that from these tournaments because even the easy bouts can get totally out of your control if you don't let them uh if you don't let yourself go and and dominate the way you need to. And that that's an important distinction that you made where he didn't roll over, it wasn't easy, but it was simple.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um second match, I had Rubish. Martin Rubisch. Martin Rubish, very strong fencer, Olympic bronze medalist, Olympic bronze medalist in the team from Czech Republic. Um, he's someone who you know, I always watched and I always respected as a good fencer, but I always felt like I could beat, you know. Really? I'm sure you have people that you feel you can beat. Martin might be listening to this. I'm sorry, dude.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Like, I Martin, it's that's a challenge that I think you should take. And listen. Unless you also think that Steven could beat you.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

But we had a very good match. Um, I shout out to Cody Madden, who coached me that weekend. Um, we I liked the things he said. Uh, he gave me some very helpful advice.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Future guests on this podcast.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, he gave me some very helpful advice. I liked the way he sort of framed things, um, and we worked well together that day and on day two. Um, so started that match out well, got a good feel for him. Um he he did surprise me with his speed, but he did things fast but short, right? Like he fell short of hitting me, and I kept thinking multiple times in these like engagements, like, oh thank God he's not doing this close enough to hit me. Because I don't know what I would do if he foreflicked me in the chest like that. But like that is the third time in the past 30 seconds he has for flicked the air, and uh I'm just very lucky that it's not my chest, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Uh, but then you know, we went on take the camera, or not the camera, the mic, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

Gotcha. Um, so yeah, that was uh that was kind of a funny thought, mid-bout, to have just like, oh, good thing this guy's not hitting me with that. Um and then, but you know, it just tactically, I think this was kind of sort of something funny that I I revisited at this competition, is like I think I'm better defensively than offensively. Um just because it's easier. I hate to say it. I don't know if it's easier for me or for everybody. I think it's for everybody, but um and all of a sudden, you know, when I get to competitions and I'm willing to just like play the game of like get up and then all right, now come get it. And like I'm gonna work really hard over here, but like come get it. Like that's when my best results have been. But then I go to other competitions and I'm like, ah, screw that. I'm just gonna go work for it and get it because I don't want to just be someone who sits at the back of the strip, right? Um, but at this one, like I did the work to get up, and then I still worked at the back of the strip, so that was sort of like a mental gymnastics for I'm not just going backwards and doing nothing, like I'm working defensively, but it was still just like patience, good defensive fencing means you win the bout by a couple touches, and like it's it's a hard fight, but like it wasn't super close, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Something that I've been thinking about with regards to what you just said is is I also have that desire, it's a craving of variety, yeah. I think.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

I I think that that giving in to that craving and not doing what the simplest path to victory is a competitive fault that we have. And I think it lies in somewhere in not having the truest desire to win in those moments. Because if you if you really have this pure desire to win, you're just gonna do the path of least resistance to getting there. And you you said one of those people, right? A winner. Wait, what? You said you don't want to be one of those people who and then I just bl I I blanked out everything else, and I was like, Yeah, in those moments, I also don't want to be a winner. No, seriously, no, no, no, no. You realize it's like our ego says, Oh, I don't want to win just by going back. I want to win by doing X, Y, or Z. But at the end of the day, it's like, if you can win just by doing the simplest strategy possible, and you've proven that it works. And I've gotten into these conversations with multiple coaches, and it's just at the end of the day, you need to be able to deliver a win at these competitions. And on the most perfect days and everything's flowing, you can hit anything.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

But here's the the other thing is like it takes a certain mental resilience to fence this way, right? Yeah. Day in and day out to just like work, work, work, work, work, counterattack, work, work, work, work, work, very repost, right? Like it requires a great deal of focus. It might not be as physically impressive, right? It might not be as like, but it does require a great deal of focus. And so I think about that, like, I won't, I won't name the fencer. Um somebody who's very good in the ranked in the world right now, and I'm I watch him, and his touches are kind of repetitive, and his movement is very repetitive. His bouts are all more or less the same. Obviously, there's some variety in the way he hits, the way he finishes, and like sometimes he's up, sometimes he's down, sometimes he makes comebacks. It's not a monolith, but for the most part, his his fencing is the same. And I'm like, I I don't know if I'm willing to do that. I don't know if I'm willing to just like do the same thing over and over and over again to victory, and maybe I need more of that uh to be really successful at this. Um who knows? I I'm gonna explore it a little bit, but yeah, it's just a weird game, man. We're in a weird game, and there's a lot of little skill trees that you can max out and a lot of little paths you can go down. Um, and at the end of the day, you hope it's gonna result in good results, but who knows?

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Well, the reason I think Mo is number one in the world is because he found a winning strategy. All right. Let's let's resume the actual episode. But it's a way I think it's a winning strategy. And I think that as a fencer who is trying to get back into winning more, I have a lot of fun. And Dylan Nolner talked about this on his episode. He doesn't miss the competing, he misses the practice because that's where he's fully free solving the problem in any way that he wants, exploring different solutions and failing, succeeding, whatever. But that's the fun, that's the solving of the Rubik's Cube. At the competitions, you have to be the Rubik's Cube, and you also have to be the impenetrable wall. You have to be all these things. And I think that as a competitor, I'm working to redefine my winning strategy and thinking of this more as a battle, as a war, as as something that is determined in victory and defeat, and making that fun. And I'm not saying anything about self-worth or I have to win or anything like that, it's just reframing the problem, you know? Yeah, yeah. And sometimes it's okay, I'm up a bunch. Can I score this touch? There are certain opportunities that present themselves, right? But at the end of the day, a competition is a battle. And I tr personally, on the contrary, really respect that and I find that there are certain master keys out there that can just unlock any door in any moment. Like Ergo Siclosi seems to just be able to attack or defend at a snap of a finger. Seems to have found his flow into that. Um but at the end of the day, most of these players of the game are also trying to execute some type of strategy, right? So I think that it's good that you tapped into that because it sounds like you did that the next match too.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

And just Yeah, it's the same way. Like you work hard, you get up, and this is how I got good in juniors. Like um, junior necks, junior world cups, whenever I had good results, brain dead strategy, push really hard, hit them in the thigh because I have a good thigh touch, and then go backwards and do nothing and win the bat.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Well, Steven, here's a crazy suggestion. Yeah, why don't you try that in seniors?

SPEAKER_03 33:13

I didn't think it would work.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Well, here's the shocker. There's a reason you were winning because the strategy worked.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

Yeah, but I you know, I I want to.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

If you can set it up in different ways, you can continue to get up. It sounds like it would work. My thought because I didn't have the same strategy. Mine was close my eyes, rattle off a bunch of whatever, and then if it worked, I'd win and then yell a lot. And if it lost, I would lose and yell a lot. So I think that having a winning strategy is a great approach.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Yeah, maybe I need to revisit that. But I don't know. I think there's more to the game, and I think when I transitioned into seniors, I wanted to learn the game more completely and build myself out more completely. And so began the multi-year journey of trying to like be a student of the game and like develop different skills. Um, there's a problem sometimes in a productive way, sometimes in a less productive way.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Once you realize that you're in the cave, you can never unrealize that you're in the cave. Yeah. And then that ignorance is never coming back. That bliss ignorance. So if you're still blissfully ignorant as a case study, first Steven and I just stay there a little longer. Just keep ripping that strat till someone really figures it out.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Before you try to even if they figure it out, yeah, it's a fluke.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Yeah. Uh don't let them tell you. Anywho, yeah. My first bout was uh a Belgian fencer who fought me pretty hard, similar to your scenario. You know, I got down, I think 1-0, 2-1, maybe, very quickly established a lead. And I wouldn't say that either of my elimination matches were my best fencing, but I was really calm and composed. And I was really focusing on something that I struggle with, which is preparing myself for every single touch of the bout. And shout out Sebastian DeSantos, who was with me all day, the woman's epic national team coach. And we had this mantra going of this, you know, this closing of the fist. I don't know if you saw me do it. No, I did not see any of your matches. Wow, unsupportive, unsupportive direct elimination co-host. Bad timing. Yeah. So I would do this closing of the fist, and that would symbolize bringing my attention to the strip that I was on in the moment. And that's something that I struggle with, as you know. My attention can go haywire really quickly, even in an intense bout like ours at the NAC. It was close, and all of a sudden it was not close at all.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

Yeah, it was zero-zero.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was zero-zero at the start of the match, and then I opened my eyes and it was over. Um, so I think I did a great job of that all day, and specifically in that first bout of just making sure that I don't give up this lead. Like I worked pretty hard for this lead, and I was doing exactly what we're talking about, this winning strategy. And it was kind of close, you know, up one, even, you know, up two, up three, up one. And then right around seven or eight, I was able to bust it open. That's kind of how this works. Sort of like a team event where you're passing off legs of a team event to your this baton is getting passed to your future self or your teammate. And at a certain point, someone can really make up a lot of space or create room in that relay. So that happened and then I won. Um you okay?

SPEAKER_03 36:39

No, I was just wow, it got got later quick.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Oh, yeah, it got real late, real quick. But um, yeah, that was my first match, and it was it was a hard fought win. Again, really simple. At no point did I think I was gonna lose, but it's any of I watched him win his bout before when he was he was losing the whole match. So at this point in this stage of competitive fencing, any bout is losable and any bout is winnable. So you gotta really finish off your your your plan and defeat your opponent, cross that finish line before you celebrate crossing that finish line.

SPEAKER_05 37:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Next match, I lost to Felipe Armaleo, our friend from Italy. Shout out, yeah, people. Yeah, people good, good fencer, great fencer, honestly. He's really good. And he's he's really fun defense, and he was really disruptive. And he executed that same winning strategy we're talking about against me, where once he got up in the middle of the match, good luck, uh yeah, he he just went to back and said good luck. And luck wasn't on my side. I also gave in to that strategy. I, you know, you have a choice as an opponent to create more discomfort for your opponent or to create more discomfort for yourself. And I chose to create more discomfort for myself and not break through that discomfort in order to create discomfort for my opponent. And he went back to execute that strategy and I tried to beat him at that strategy, which is typically incorrect in most of these cases, unless your attack is so good that you can just break through your opponent's defense. And that, as we know, direct elimination is not my strat. Do you want to hear something funny? Uh, will I find it funny? Maybe. All right, let's see.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

I've I've come to realize that in the last year that that's not a good strategy. Which one? Uh, beat them at what they're good at or what they're strong. Yeah, yeah. Well, I've lost competitions this last year, and I would think back to it after, and I go, like, okay, what was I trying to do? What was the was the plan? Was the strategy? And it was like, well, he was really good at this thing. So I just tried to beat him at that. Yeah. And it didn't work. Yeah. Um, as Sun Tzu once said, attack your enemy where he is not.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah. And that might have been even something that we covered on this podcast. Not that quote, but your strategy there. And I think that that's something that I clearly needed a little more awareness of in that moment. And then it's a different match. Then I fight Filippo all the way to the last moment. Instead, I'm fighting an uphill battle all the way into the third period. And he's slowly touch by touch, you know, 30 seconds by 30 seconds, ripping open that lead one point at a time. We really it was 59 at the end, but it was really a lot of work from both ends until the end. Granted, I was pushing that boulder uphill and it just weighed too much, crushed me underneath it. And that was the end of my competition. But it was so, so fun to be back out there and to just be fully present for a full day of competition. I haven't had that in a long time, even in the US. Just continuously finding a way to re-center myself, be present, and enjoy the process because I try to control it so much. Even these other tournaments that I've done well, I've tried to control each little moment. And I think I just balanced focusing and releasing steam really well at this competition. And I don't think that that had any impact on my result. It was really just in the moment with Filippo, choosing the wrong cards to play. And that that's a reality you have to face. And understanding that, you know, matchups are a thing, but also that mental shift, that's what's keeping you from the next step. Then you you really have to address that. So I have a really, really strong momentum and strong tailwinds behind me, pushing me forward into this next training block and competitive uh, you know, part of our season where could potentially get back on the travel squad. We're all kind of sitting on that verge of potentially being in top 12. And yeah, we'll see where it goes. But I had a really good time.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

No, that's awesome. And for what it's worth, Ari, like you did a great job. It was good to have you back. And I am saying this as someone who's like a thanks, dad, uh uh a B plot character at these World Cups now, just showing up like one every four, basically. Um, but I appreciate the ones. But uh it was uh it was good to be there with you. It was good to have you back, and you fenced very well. It's like you said, it's not an it's now not an issue of you know coming back from the injury or like a lack in your ability as a competitor, as a fencer. It's just you need to get those reps in and like know when to hold them, when know when to fold them, and uh and play those cards. And in the in the words of a wise young man, horses don't stop, they keep going. So to segue, uh this horse definitely stopped. This well, this horse is gonna stop until the April neck at least. So, but to segue, uh for anybody who knows me in real life.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

I meant this horse. Oh, this horse stopped. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

So for anybody who who knows me in real life um and has asked about Kazakhstan and this trip, I would always say I'm just excited to go eat horse meat. And so for those of you who don't know, Kazakh national dish is horse meat and noodles. And it's called uh you remember?

SPEAKER_01 42:09

No, Bishbarmack. Bish Barmak. It means five finger. You're supposed to eat it with five fingers like this. I got a chance to eat it with my hands. It is really yummy. I didn't do everything.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

These really fat, thick noodles, yep, and different cuts of the horse. So I had the opportunity to eat this with some Kazakh friends last year, and then we found out that this competition was going to be in Kazakhstan. So for like nine months now, I've just been like, I want to go eat horse again. That horse meat was delicious. And like part of me thought it was a bit, but also deep down I knew that I love this dish. I love eating horse meat. Pause. Um, and we did. We went, we had it multiple meals. Ari, this was your first horse meat experience, yes? When in Rome, eat the horse.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Did you enjoy it? I think that part of the reason we enjoyed this tournament so much was because we got it. Because we got to eat horse meat. Yeah, no, and it's not because we're obsessed with eating horse now. It's really just being in a place where this is sort of a sacred dish to the community, and it's something that they're really proud of. And it it did taste really good. It was really good. Some of the things that I tried that were not so good is kumus, which is fermented horse milk. Uh, significantly less good than what we're about to eat here.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Well, we don't know if this is good. So I was able to smuggle back some horse meat. Uh show it to the camera, see if it focuses.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

No, definitely be able to get it to focus. Like this is a focus.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

Oh, yeah, there we go. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Um, can you read that? No, it's in Kazakh.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Oh, yeah. Um, so I I uh this was in the the hotel fridge, and then from the hotel fridge, right into my fencing bag as I was leaving, and it was cold outside, cold in Isttick. So it went bad. Hopefully it didn't go bad. Um we'll have an update on Saturday's episode if Ari and I got sick from this or not. Oh, that smells good.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Cheers, Steven. Cheers, Ari. Uh no ASMR for you guys, but for those of you who want to see what horse salami looks like.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

This is some sort of somewhere between a salami and a jerky.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Just like we're back. Suddenly. We never left.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Literally between a salami and a jerky. Shout out to the Beagle in uh baggage claim that it was off duty by the time I got my bag.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Not catching me with this. I also have a salami, a horse-like salami back in my apartment, so maybe we can try that one next.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Yeah. Anyways, it was just really fun to be back on the circuit with you guys, seeing friends from all different countries. You spend so many years just doing this thing, and the older I get, the more I appreciate all the things that fencing has brought me and all the things that it continues to bring me. I got a lot closer with you know, our whole team. Shout out Simon Val. He had a he had a great weekend as a as a teammate. I feel like he grew on you and me quite a bit. Shout out Seth and Cody and Sebastian. It was just really fun hanging out with this new US team. I hadn't gotten to do it outside of our training camps. I think they did really well. And before we talk about the team event, I just want to just go through the individual event. Shout out to Ruslan Kurbanov for making the finals in his home country. First World Cup in Kazakhstan for Men's FA ever. This man gets second place on an injured leg. And shout out Roman Svichkar for winning his first World Cup ever. One of the nicest guys in fencing, really doing a lot for our sport in Ukraine in a war-torn country. In with just not a lot of resources, he's just clawing away at everything. Instagram, you know, I see him doing some podcasts there. He's fencing his heart out. He's in the highest rank he's been in in his career. He's just fencing like a monster. And I'm loving all the smiling.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Nicest guy on the circuit. Really the nicest guy in the circuit. Um, I've interacted with him for a number of years now, and he's just the nicest guy on the circuit. Really cool guy. Really, like you said, just putting it all out there every single time without fail.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

He would eat this horse with us on this podcast for sure.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Of course. Um, and then again, shout out Rooslan Corbett. Those are the two guys I wanted to shout out as well. It's just Gorbanov is an incredible fencer, he's just gonna keep getting better and better. And he really held it down at home. And it it not broke my heart is the wrong thing, but I watched him limp his way through day two the entire time and just like, damn man, I'm so sorry. But then he would get back out there like it was neutral.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

He beat Koki Kano on a whatever broken leg he's got.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

Yeah, but he would he would limp after the touch when he's walking. But when he was fencing, you couldn't tell, man. He was putting in that fight, he had that dog in him, yeah. Um, and just a great final, a great day, and congrats to those two guys.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

They did to all the top four. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nudge, David Nudge broke through the Hungarian wall. All the Hungarians fenced each other.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

I've I've this is shout out David, he's a cool guy. We've been fencing with each other since we were 15. Um, someone what's up? Yeah, you got third. Um he was out two seasons ago after the Olympics. He had some surgery, but he's back now. And like to put on a result like that, I'm so happy for him.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

He's puts my entire comeback into perspective, don't it?

SPEAKER_03 48:08

Yeah, dude. Well, he was like, I saw him in Monal last year, and he was like, Oh, I saw you were out. I was like, Yeah, I had a hip issue. And he's like, Oh, did you get surgery? I was like, No. And he's like, Oh, I got surgery, I'm back already. I was like, All right, yeah, damn.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

And then the other third place was Mo. And Mo. I'll say I had a future guest on the show. We're gonna be recording actually with him. Can we save Erica some of this? Oh, yeah, I'm done eating. I'm done. No, you you can have more. I'm just saying it now so we don't use it. You know how it goes. Yeah. Um, but yeah, shout out Mo with a pretty legendary season. I don't I don't know if there's ever been a men's epeus from Egypt ranked number one in the world, and it looks like Mo is a good shot to be ranked number one in the world at the end of this season, which is really crazy. And he's still so young and executing at such a high level, uh, just winning so many bouts, really winning close matches, but kind of blown through the competition. Um, obviously, he lost a blowout to Roman Switchkar at the same time. He was dominating all day. So, yet another medal for him in a pretty awesome season. So, shout out to all the medalists, and it was just good fencing. There's a lot of good bouting, good energy. Great bouts. The tournament was ran wonderfully. And that brings us to our next shout out here. I gotta stay for the team event. And it was so we've had three good days as a team since the Paris Olympics have ended. No, we had a top eight at the challenge Monale last year. We got a second place at Zonal Championships, which was nice to be back on the podium. And then this tournament here, we had a very, very, very uplifting sixth place finish with a brand new team. Sam Imric, Elijah Imric, Oleg Knisch, and Gabe Feinberg representing the USA. Our boys held it down. And over time, we beat the Olympic champions. No, no special subs. It was the four that competed, got that gold. It was the four that got silver at World Championships last year. One of the best teams in the world over the last couple of years. And we beat them head to head, you know, took it toe-to-toe. Granted, I think we fenced very well. I think they fenced to our strengths, which is a mistake. I I would be remiss to say that they are not going to come back fighting even harder next time. But that is a privilege to have them study that loss and come back and fight us harder. And Elijah Imric with an absolute beast of a beast of a first team event that he had ever fenced. He crushed Team Canada earlier, our zonal rivals, and then just absolutely lit up the Hungarian team. The rest of the team fighting hard right behind him. Sam with some great teammate energy after losing a bat to Soclosi in the middle there, coming right back and getting some really, really critical singles. And Oleg in overtime against one of the most dominant fencers of our generation, bringing it home. After that, I do think we squandered a shot at a medal against a uh also new Kazakh team. A lot of people subbing in. Kazakhstan did have the home bonus points and they did get to use their stat boost to defeat us. I think we definitely chased a little bit when we shouldn't have, but still after that loss, we turned around and we got some wins. We got a win against uh Uzbekistan and then a close loss against Switzerland, one of the top teams in the world right now. So just to be toe-to-toe with these guys and the bats that we could have lost, or that the bats that we did lose, we could have won was really, really uplifting to see. And it was probably the first time, you know, we've been talking about we're on the up, we're on the up, we're on the up. You know, that's that's the the the drum that I love to beat. That being said, I think this was the first time. For the record, other countries hate to see it. We have friends, we know you're our friends if you're listening from another country, but we know no one likes watching Americans do well. We're the privileged guys, we're the arrogant guys, we're the guys with weird, funky styles, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. And that being said, this was the first time that I think the teams around the world looked at us and saw that we might be improving. And it was really, really awesome to see as an athlete, as a teammate, and as someone who's, you know, really supporting this program in our in our growing stages. And I think that we're only gonna keep improving. It's not a direct road up, we're gonna have some hard losses in the future, but it was really cool to see. We really have a shot.

SPEAKER_05 52:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

And as much as we love to say, Oh, I believe this, I know this, whatnot. It was it was really cool to see it come to fruition in one way or another.

SPEAKER_05 53:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

And it was really exciting to to be there for that win against Hungary. Uh, I know for a fact people stateside woke up and saw that and were shocked. And that was awesome. Oh my god, we'd be hungry. Whoa, Ari, you were there. What happened? Um, not that any of our friends or peers don't believe in Team USA. It's just that's a huge win.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

And shout out to that, and shout out to our ladies who've been absolutely demolishing this season internationally with yet another podium. They made it on the final strip, lost to a Korean team that did want revenge, but our ladies were dominant. They they're just taking down all the teams in the world right now. And it is really cool to see the vets of the team, Kasha and Hadley, come together as strong leaders and just deliver win after win. And the people that are rotating through, you know, on team, off-team that are stepping in are really playing their roles so well. And it is cool to see them beaten down on other teams as, you know, inspiring. And maybe our men's epic team will start doing it too. We can compete with them a bit.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

Absolutely. Well, I'm glad that you had the opportunity to stay and watch that. And also, congratulations to everybody on both of those teams, everybody involved in both of these programs, the coaches, the individual coaches, everybody who's supporting these teams. We are on the way up, and it's gonna be we still got a long way to go until the next Olympics. And I have nothing but high hopes for both teams. Um, I think it's gonna be an incredible journey, and like you said, probably some hard losses along the way, but also hopefully some some more. Well, undoubtedly, some more pretty sweet wins. So we'll we'll stay tuned and it'll be good. Yeah, more to come. Also, shout out that horse that was actually really tasty. That was really tasty. I want to eat more.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

I'm gonna miss shopping in Kazakhstan. That grocery store was so good. Genuinely just I ate the pickles that I bought. Incredible. I mean, just everything. It was it was like uh just really, really good across the board. I want to go eat good savories. Well, I want to go eat. We might be going back. We are probably going back.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

FIE don't bungle this, send us back to Kazakhstan. We loved it, it was an incredible place. Um, yeah, I can't say enough good things about that country. I I really loved it.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

Yeah, no, it was awesome. So uh I think rather than bore you guys with more yapping, just I think that the biggest takeaways I have from this trip are that the level's really high, everyone's really athletic, everyone's moving so much, but the game is getting more fun. I don't think I know we've talked about this so much with like it being less technical, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff, but it is more fun because it feels like everyone is really just just fighting and in it, and there is action. You feel the speeding up of epe happening, and I still feel that they the things that make epe epe are present. The distance, the timing, the patience. But things are happening more quickly, there's more action, people are finishing their actions more, and it is really exciting to feel that on strip and to watch the top people in the world just adjust their game for the new rules and gameplays that are successful. And it's yeah, it's cool to see these exciting just slug fests, and it it's it's cool. It is really exciting to be back, and I can't wait for my next one. And I can't wait to be back out there with the guys, and it was really cool to see you do well. We didn't get to talk about your loss to Kira Komada, but it was cool to see you face because I started yapping.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

No, no, never. But um, no, it was it was a really I mean he's world number five.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

You gotta fence world number five and see where you stack up, and I think I think you could have beat him. Yeah, I think he fenced you well, and that's why he won. But that being said, it was it was cool to see it potentially go both ways, and you know that you're you're there. It's like just a few better decisions.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

Anyway, Ari digresses. Um this was a cool it was a cool competition, really. I think it was like you said, I agree with everything you said about the direction the game is heading. I agree that these are slug fest matches. Um with the changeups in international coaching that have happened in the last two years, like the the playing field is leveling even more.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Yeah, like what change ups?

SPEAKER_03 57:43

Like Groumier being in Hong Kong and Sasha being in Kazakhstan, and you're seeing like we we talk about this with foilists and saberists, where it's like everybody can fend to these, right? You still see a lot of like in foil and saber, you still see a lot of like dude. What about Mazzoni in Uzbekistan? Mazzoni in Uzbekistan, Gerent in Switzerland, yeah. I'm sorry, uh the encyclopedia had more off the cuff than they did.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

There are so many, dude. The Chinese team. The Chinese team has that Russian guy, yeah. You have so many strong We got Seth Kelsey, yeah. No, but all these legends.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

But what I'm saying is like you you have so many strong fencers from so many different places, and they're just getting better. And that makes the game very exciting. And I think you're starting to see people who have a lot of skill and a lot of talent and a lot of potential, even at later points in their career, all of a sudden are starting to see that potential come to fruition because of the additional investment or just a different perspective being placed into their fencing. And they're very exciting. You don't know who's gonna win, right? We we had some fun bets. Like we always we always at these World Cups, you know, bet on bouts, um, bet coffees, beers, whatever. Uh but there was a lot of bouts that we just didn't know, right? And like it happened where it's not like we we didn't bet on it because we both agreed, we didn't bet on it because we were like, I shit, I don't know. Let's let's see what happens. Yeah. Um, so the game is very exciting. I I hope that there's more progress and investment made in making fencing available for people to watch because I think it is it's starting to become a very watchable sport. And I think if people were to get invested in these athletes and these storylines, and there's there's information available now on the internet, people are doing social media things. You're you're getting to meet some of these athletes via social media, and I think it's a great time for people to become invested in the sport, and so I I hope that that progresses naturally as well, too, because I think people, the athletes now are putting on a good show. Um, and I'm excited to see the rest of the season and the rest of these World Cups, and hopefully we're there to see them live.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Yeah. Speaking of social media, we also made some collaborative content with Marco Kuta. Marco. Marco is awesome. What he's a budding content creator in our sport, very new, but he already went viral a couple times for these comedy videos, and we got to be extra actors in one. And it was really cool to help him bring that to life.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:21

Yeah, shout out, Marco. Thanks for including us in that. Yeah, um, also, I I we we talked a bit about this at the competition, but that guy is internet funny. Yeah, like the way Tw the way he chose his words and the way he chose his scenarios, I was like, you're good at being funny on camera. Yeah, and that's gonna make more distinction. Yeah, um, so definitely check out Marco Kuta. Uh, I don't remember how to spell it. It's all good.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Check out me and Ari's tagged videos. Yeah. Um and also, just speaking of like people thugging it out out there, I really we're gonna eventually have him on an episode. But Conrad Kongstad, who won the Fujaira World Cup, uh, first Danish uh men's epist to ever win a World Cup, uh, maybe Danish Fencer, but I don't want to speak out my butt here. I want to just say men's epist. Turns out he doesn't even have a formal coach. So some athletes are really willing themselves to this, you know, championship level caliber via very different pathways.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

And I think that the more we can highlight that type of stuff via direct elimination, the better. So hopefully we'll be able to get him on an episode at some point.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

Yeah. But to all of our friends internationally, um Oh yeah, if you're watching this and came up to us, I slide oh yeah. First of all, it was great to meet some of the viewers of this podcast. Um, you know, we say this every time we come back from a competition, just like, oh, we met people and they were nice. Like again, great to meet you all. Um to any of our friends, international fencers, slide in New York for a weekend. Let's get you, let's get you in one of these chairs, let's hear your story. We need we need more. Um, and that goes for foil and saber fencers too. If you guys are listeners and you're able, we'd love, you know, let us know. And uh we'd love to have you on.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Yeah, especially if your name's Sandra Bozadze. Especially if your name is Sandra Bazadze. Um, but seriously, this the I think it just gave me a whole nother perspective on what we're doing. We went out there and I didn't expect a bunch of international people to tell us they listen to our podcast, and they do. And even if you were lying, those words are fuel for Steve and I to make more of this. And we couldn't do this project without you guys and any of the listeners to this podcast. You know, this was a pretty unstructured, unplanned episode. We just wanted to talk about the tournament and and give you guys a little update on where we're at and what you can expect. We're gonna have really cool episodes coming up with Jackie Dubrovic, with Mohammed Al-Sayed, with Isabella Dutella, with Catherine Holmes, and and more people.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:00

And many more.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

Many more. Those are just the next couple that we're gonna be rolling out. So um maybe we'll pop a Stephen and I episode in there talking about the World Fencing League right before its debut. I think that's pretty important. And yeah, just really thank you for supporting us on this journey. And I think that you're gonna be seeing the cool stuff that we keep talking about, being cool in the works, start to come out. Some of these vlogs showing you a little bit of our life, some of these uh solo videos we're doing, and just projects we're taking part in.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:36

Irish on three.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

One, two, three.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:38

Irish.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

Um I do some ads.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

I could do an ad.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

See, I'm not that swab of a guy, but when I'm wearing my pre ear mask, I sure do feel like one. By Prairie USA. Get grippy with edge.